Creationist Christians

Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort have made a video talking about the program they are promoting, where by they will give away 100,000 copies of “The Origin of Species”, by Charles Darwin. They will be doing this on collage campuses across the country on November 19 (Thursday) to “celebrate” the 150th anniversary of the publishing of Darwin's book.. To get out their Christian message of creationism Ray Comfort has put a 50 page forward in the book that tells the “truth” about Darwin and evolution.

I'm not going to address the nonsense in his forward in this post. There are more than a few blogs that have put the lie to Mr. Comforts fantasy attack on atheism, Darwin and evolution. I want to put some of the comments of his and Cameron's fellow Christians out there. But before doing that, I will point out that not all Christians are like Comfort or Cameron, or like the people whose comments I will address here. I understand that many Christians accept evolution, and are not like the right wing nuts that are in charge of the GOP.

Read the comment on TMZ, and please feel free to watch to Cameron's video.

Kate says:

“[Cameron is] saying he wants two perspectives given in the classroom. Why does that scare evolutionists so badly?...You may be wrong. Do you want to be wrong? I don't.”

The classroom Kate is referring to is the science classroom, where evolution is taught. Cameron and Comfort both want creationism taught side by side with real science, but creationism is not science. It's religion. Evolutionists are not scared, they are tired of the lies, misinformation and constant politicizing of science.

Scientists do get it wrong sometimes, maybe a lot more than they, as individuals would like, but that's what happens, when you have to test out your ideas in the real world. And just in case Kate is really talking about being wrong about gods, how typical that she is so sure she is betting on the right horse.

Francie says:

“...Darwin's "theory" doesn't have an evolutionary leg to stand on. If subjected to today's modern scientific and biological knowledge his "theory" would be instantly debunked and revealed for what it is, some delusional attempt to discredit the Creator of the universe who has eternity in his hands. It's your choice where to spend it.”

Francie is funny. Ask 99.9% of modern biologists and other scientists and they will tell you that evolution theory is the basis of modern biology. Really, does she think that the last time anyone looked at the theory of evolution, was 150 years ago? Sheesh. Scientists will even point out that Darwin got a few things wrong. The truth is, that every time a new method of testing, and investigation comes along, like the study of DNA, biologists start testing evolution in hopes of being the first one to discover some new fact that supports or weakens some aspect of evolutionary theory. Talk about a carrier maker, being the one to shake Darwin out of the cat bird seat.

And once again, we have veiled threats about hell. Some Christians seem to want us to go to hell if we're wrong. I mean some of them really want it.

Debbidy says:

We Christians have no connection with Hitler.....If you remember your history...We, Christians, have been killed for our beliefs. Would you die for yours....

This reference is the result of the creationist claim (and that of Cameron and Comfort) that Hitler had an “undeniable connection"to Darwin and Evolution. An atheist commented that,

“Christianity has an "undeniable connection" with Hitler, racism has an "undeniable connection" to Christian Fundamentalists, and Krk [sic] Cameron has an "undeniable connection" to willful ignorance.

The uncomfortable truth for Christians is that Germany was a Christian country. Members of the Wehrmacht wore buckles that said, “Gott mit uns ” (God with us) and there is no evidence that Hitler ever stopped believing in God. There is also no evidence that Hitler ever thought about evolution, much less accepted that his superior race evolved from apes and blacks that were the first examples of humans on earth.

But let us, for a moment, accept all the misinformation presented about Hitler and Darwin. The truth is that not one thing would be changed in the evolutionary theory. It is still factual science. That it might have been badly used (were the claims true) is irrelevant. After all, Christianity has been used badly by despots and killers for centuries, and that is history. That Christians were occasionally killed (mostly early on) for their beliefs does not make them right. Only dead.

Kathy says:

“...In his own words: Darwin confessed, "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." Even Darwin thought his theory was faulty - and that's why it's just that - A theory and nothing more.”

I am going to give Katy the benefit of the doubt, and assume that she has never actually read Origin. If she had, she would know that Darwin follows that statement with several pages explaining just how the eye could have developed with evolution. Creationist leaders cherry pick Darwin's quotes the same way they often cherry pick quotes from the Bible. Out of context. Darwin did not think his theory was faulty,.

As to the ol' chestnut, “...and that's why it's just that - A theory and nothing more.”, Kathy continues to misunderstand science. A scientific theory is not “just” anything. The theory of evolution, has 150 years of science to back it up. Science from multiple disciplines and hundreds of thousands of tests and predictions. The mountain of evidence for evolutionary theory will not crumble to the likes of creationism. Theory in science is the best thing to be..

Wombat says:

Not even athiests [sic] believe what they babble about. They are just depressed disenchanted people who have to lash out at others because they do believe in a God. But you can't believe in a God can you? Because then you would'nt [sic] have anything to talk about. You'd be the totally uninteresting person at a party of people who all root for the Dodgers. Others believe in God, so you have to NOT believe in God. You are like a walking talking coffee table book, or a tattoo, or a cute dog on a leash you walk thru the park in hopes some girl will talk to you...constantly seeking something to make yourself interesting...because otherwise you are just a dimwitted angry person.

LOL...why do you think athiests [sic] run around babbling their nonsense and trying to get others to STOP believing? If an athiest [sic] really believed in what they say they do, they'd just stay quiet and laugh at us who do believe. Instead you have to fight about it with every breath you take.

Also, you might try realizing that being an athiest [sic] and showing some common courtesy and manners are not alien to each other. Maybe then you can post something one day which is not filled with hate, insults ...and a whole lot of clues to your immaturity.

Now...I will let you get back to scouring the internet for something to scream and rant about with your 5 year old mentality.

Wow. Just Wow. Now I will admit that Wombat was taunted by someone that called her/him a “F*cking hypocrite.”, wow. The turning the other cheek love just flows...not. Apparently, Wombat has trouble with the notion that an atheist can be an intelligent and thoughtful person. But for the record I'm not depressed or disenchanted; I'm did not become an atheist so I could be interesting; I am most definitely not a dimwitted angry person; and while I'm am vocal, there are several reasons and one of them speaks to why so many atheists are speaking out now. I know that Wombat and others would like for us to just stay quiet, but that isn't their choice. With folks trying to put creationism into the science classroom, and trying to make laws that reflect their Christian beliefs, rather than the broader social make up of the country, more and more atheists see the need to make sure that we are counted too.

And quite frankly, I'm tired of Christians telling me what I should think, do, or say as an atheist. As for “filled with hate, insults...”, etc... time to look in the mirror, Wombat.

Chris says:

“Kirk isn't shoving anything down anyone's throat, he is simply trying to give people a chance to decided for themselves what they believe. On college campuses across the U.S. and in public schools only one side is given to students.

Why can't both sides be presented and then give each student the FREEDOM to decided what they believe and don't believe?...I say let him hand out his book, let both sides be presented and give American's the freedom to decided for themselves.”

What isn't being pointed out by Chris is that Cameron does want creationism shoved down the throats of students by putting it in science classes, where it doesn't belong, but in the science class we don't teach opinion. If you mix the right two chemicals together, you get a chemical reaction. That isn't opinion or a matter for letting the student decide for themselves. Science is not democratic. Gravity exists, and if you want to believe otherwise, fine, but that we should teach the “controversy”, where someone might differ is foolish. Notice that we do not teach holocaust denialism in history classes. The holocaust occurred, and while we can present the evidence for it, we also say clearly, that 6 million Jews were killed. Period.

Evolution is a fact. It is the basis of modern biology and in a properly taught science class, the facts are presented, experiments performed and children (including collage students) are taught the basics of how to do science, and why things are they way they are. Creationism does not make predictions, has no facts to support it, and performs no experiments, so it is not science. There is no controversy, and no alternative of a scientific type to evolution.

Josh said:

“The point of the Hitler remark, the racism remark is plain to see. Evolution gives supporting rationale to racism because it is assumed that people will evolve in different ways and at different rates. You cannot embrace a theory such as evolution and insist that all people are equal, it is impossible by definition. If we simply rose from pond scum, if we are simply carbon sacks of water with electricity, we have no intrinsic value other than what power we hold and those with power deem us to have; Survival of the Fittest.”

Evolution does not give support to racism, and does not assume that “people will evolve in different ways and at different rates.” This is a perfect example of someone who doesn't have a clue what evolution is. If we (humans) continue to evolve, and that is a real possibility, it will be as a species, not as single individuals. That is how evolution works. On populations, not one person at a time.

I personally don't think we are “simply” carbon sacks of water with electricity, with no intrinsic value. We are social animals that got where we are together as a species, and we either survive as a species or we don't. Survival of the fittest refers to the species that can adapt to it's environment and thus survive where others might not. If we, as humans, can't adapt to changes in the world around us, we could be replaced, and it wouldn't have to be an intelligent species that replaces us in the niche we now fill.

The above examples are why atheists and scientists are so tired of people who speak about things they don't understand. It has always baffled me that so many Christians think the person to talk to about evolution is a preacher, or an actor who hasn't a single degree in the sciences. Which is why I would be the first one to say, don't take my word for it. Go to some of many web sites or blogs maintained by biologists and read what they have to say. Read books written by evolutionists and work to understand what they are saying and why.

And as for us atheists, we live right along side you, and have the same rights to speak out as you do. I refuse to apologize or shut up just because what I say bothers you.

The Backward Whale

Things keep turning up in the fossil world. Scientists have gone and dug up another transitional fossil for the whale, this one called the Maiacetus.

The oldest fossil is the Sinonyx, a wolf-sized critter. Then there is the Pakicetus (the oldest cetacean) followed by the Ambulocetus natans (the walking whale that swims). At about 46 to 47 million years ago the Rodhocetus lived, and this same time period is where the Maiacetus lived. Then the Basilosaurus and
the Dorudon left their marks.

All this information (minus the Maiacetus) is in an excellent article by Raymond Sutera called The Origin of Whales and the Power of Independent Evidence.

For Information on the Maiacetus check out The Backward Whale at The Loom blog, Fossil foetus shows that early whales gave birth on land at Not Exactly Rocket Science. And Maiacetus, the good mother whale at Laelaps. And lastly Amazing Fossil Finding: Proto Whales Gave Birth on Land, not at sea at Greg Laden's Blog.

For all information evolution, go to The TalkOrigins Archive.

The God Delusion

I just finished reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. This is a nice read. Dawkins writes in a clear and straightforward manner, and presents a calm argument for rejecting belief in a god. He also presents the problems of religion and responds to arguments about the problems of atheism.

After reading The God Delusion, I have to admit to being baffled by the notion that he comes off as an "angry atheist". His tone to me was not angry. Firm, yes. Decisive, yes. Even argumentative at times, yes. But angry? (Madalyn Murry O'Hair was angry. By comparison, Richard is a pussy cat.) The only time I see anything remotely like anger is when he talks about children and religion, and here is argument is more about child abuse. He argues that children are not Christian, Jewish or Muslim (or any other religion for that matter) but children. Children are not Democrats, Republicans or Communists, but the children of
Democrats, Republicans or Communists.

He argues that children should be protected from the religious views of parents when those views threaten to harm the child. That he sees religion as a harm in the education of children, and in their mental development is something that he argues rather well. What the answer to this problem is, would be a worthwhile discussion for anyone.

That children are harmed and killed every year because of the beliefs of their parents put into action is something that can not be denied. Children who suffer painful deaths because mom and dad would rather
believe that prayer should save them, when a simple shot or two would save them should not be in that position. If that rankles people of faith, then so be it. Let us make sure that no ones religion can interfere in children getting proper medical attention. Even the parents of the children. If that kid decides to become a practicing bible thumper at 18 and wants to believe that prayer will cure rather than avail him/her self of proven medical care, then let them reap the rewards of their beliefs, but not before that.

I would highly recommend this book to anyone out there. It is a good introduction to atheism.

Makers of gods

I have been in arguments and discussions about religion since I was 13 years old. That's when I started the journey that led to my becoming an atheist. It was an 11 year journey, because I didn't decide that I was an atheist until the year before my daughter was born. I was 24.

Many different things led to making that decision. One of them is the realization that we (meaning humans) insist on answers to all our questions. If we don't have answers, we make them up. Here's how I think it might have gone, long ago in a quiet cave late one night when a few of the folks inside couldn't sleep.

Tuggi: It's dark out there.
Farg: Have you noticed that that big shiny thing doesn't stay up there?
Tuggi: Well, Duh!
Farg: What do you mean, Duh? I'm just saying, it doesn't stay up there?
Garph: Where does it go?
Tuggi: That way. (Tuggi points west)
Garph: But why?
Farg: Don't know, do we?
Tuggi: Speak for your self. I have it all figured out.
Garph: Really?
Farg: No not really. He's full of beans, he is.
Tuggi: Am not. There's two of them, you know.
Garph: Two of who.
Tuggi: Two of the great and powerful beings in the sky.
Farg: Oh come on.
Tuggi: The one only comes out at night, and he's not as strong as the day other.
Garph: How do you know?
Tuggi: During the day, you can't look at the bright one. He is that powerful. But during the night, you can look at the face of the other. And he changes.
Farg: He's making this up you know.
Garph: Shhh! I want to know more.
Tuggi: Not making it up. You have seen his change from whole, to partly whole, down to nothing.
Farg: And where does he go when he's nothing?
Tuggi: He goes and gets his light back. The bright one steals it.
Farg: Does not.
Garph: That makes sense. The bright one steals it and the other chases him across the sky.
Tuggi: Exactly.
Farg: Buggers. Your full of bean gas.
Garph: (Hits Farg on head with rock.)
Tuggi: Why'd you do that?
Garph: He doesn't see the truth in what you say. Had to bash him.
Tuggi: Ah. He'll listen better when he wakes up.
Garph: Truth.

So there you have it. The beginning of the gods. The names were changed to protect the innocent.

Now think about it. There are a bazillion gods. Everyone has one, they make new ones from old worn out gods, and have been known to construct them out of whole cloth. Gods explain good and bad weather. Good and bad luck. Victory and defeat. Heck. Gods even explain ugly babies. Gods are everywhere. In trees. Rocks. Holes in the ground. Really good weed. (So I've been told).

I've been told that there is only one true god. Of course, I've been told this by people who define this one true god differently from the others who define him/it/her. Everyone is convinced that their explanation for this god, his history if you will, is the right one. And all the histories are different, too.

All these gods are there to explain things that we otherwise didn't (or don't) understand. Don't have an answer? God did it. And if you can make up answers for what gods did and didn't do, you can make up answers for other things you don't understand. Just ask the creationists. They make shit up all the time.

And all this wouldn't be so bad if people just kept it to themselves, but they don't. They want to teach it in the schools and pass laws.

Too thick to accept the fact that gays and lesbians are the way they are because they were born that way? No trouble, go to the Bible, Koran, or other book of ignorance and it will tell you they are bad. It may not say why, except that they are (insert something awful here) in the eyes of someone's god. Never mind that most of these rules were written by bronze age people who didn't have a clue about genetics, brain chemistry or development, or even the slightest understanding of what makes us tick.

Good god, these people thought a snake could convince a woman to eat an apple. They accepted stories of talking asses. Worse. They accepted stories from talking asses.

Really folks, it is time to put all these poor explanations for understanding away. We have science. We are getting more answers all the time, and these come with real evidence that supports them. Do we still have questions? Yes. What to do? Look for answers and not just say, god did it. In the mean time? Not a problem.

Just say, "I don't know".

More on Death

You know, once you touch on a topic, it can be hard to put it down altogether. I have two other thoughts on the subject. Both have a humorous element (to me anyway).

First is a recurring thought about T.V. shows and holiday breaks. Smallville is a good example here. One of my favorite shows that has gone on break till January 15th. It's at least a two parter, "to be continued" type. My thought was "Oh Great! What happens if I die before the conclusion? I'll never get to see the episode." Heh...

Because I live in the now, because I, like most people can't really get my mind around not having one (a mind that is), I feel like I will "miss" the show. Of course, I won't even miss me, much less missing the conclusion of a two parter, but there is still that little voice that has to have its way.

The second thought has to do with those who have died before us. In my extended family, my mother, father, several aunts and uncles as well as a cousin or two have all "gone on before" me. In short, they have died.

So what do we hear the believers say at important moments in their lives? "I wish my mother was hear to see this...", which is where I would stop but not the religious, "...but I know she is watching from heaven." At which point they look up and usually follow with, "This ones for you Mom."

Now I have several reactions to this kind of statement:

1. I can understand the feeling behind it. I reacted with a serious depression when my mother died 15 years ago next Friday, and I did miss her seeing my accomplishments big and small. I would have loved for her to live long enough to meet her great grandchild.

2. But let us assume for just a moment (before we stop assuming when done with this exercise) that mother is up in heaven right now. What in hell makes you think she has time, or the inclination to be looking down on you at this very moment. Wouldn't she have more important things to keep her busy without spending time looking in on what is going on elsewhere in reality? Doesn't God have Memorex? And time, not being an issue as far as the whole linear thing is concerned should allow one to view all those "important" moments in one sitting, don't you think?

3. And then there is this last issue. What if...what if it is really true that our mothers, fathers and other loved ones are sitting in heaven, (are they in the cheap seats, all the best ones taken by this time?) "watching down on us" all the freaking time? I mean really. I don't want to have to deal with the image of my mother watching me in the john, having sex or for that matter watching "Debbie does..." anyone. I would quickly cease being able to do the simplest damn thing in the toilet or the bedroom. Who in hell thought that up, and what makes them think that is an image anyone with half a mind would want.

I'm Just Saying...

Christian and Muslim

I read a number of blogs and articles on-line, and because I am an atheist, I often end up on an atheist, or atheist friendly site. If you are an atheist blogging, or writing, and make an effort to point out the silliness, absurdity, or downright lies and evil in the lives of many in the Christian church, you will find that sooner or later, someone is going to comment on your blog, respond to your article, or make their own podcast pointing out that you are a coward. And why are you a coward?

Because you are not attacking Islam. You are not pissing on Mohammad the way you are pissing on Jesus, or the way you are pissing on their crackers or ritual. You are not pointing out just how silly Islam is. And why are you not doing this? Because, say the Christians, you know that the Muslims will kill you. Then they dare you to prove how brave you are by challenging you to piss on Mohammad.

Now I can understand that when a Christian sees his beliefs attacked, he responds as poorly as anyone else would who is holding on to something that is baseless and tenuous. He responds like a kid in grade school.

"I bet you won't go in there."
"I bet you won't stick that in your mouth."
"I be you won't jump."

Knowing that there are factions of Islam that are totally unstable, and that there are indeed absolute nucking futs out there who would really kill you because you pissed on there version of the make believe world, the nut ball Christians, dare atheists to say the same mean things to even bigger nut balls.

P.Z. Myers in response to rabid Catholics who were threatening the life and education of a Florida college student placed a "cracker", or what is more commonly called a Eucharist, in his trash with a nail pierced through it, and photographed it. He was told the cracker was blessed, which means that if you are a Catholic, you likely believe that the cracker was the body of Jesus. See what I mean by nuts?

P.Z., like so many other atheists was told that he was a coward because he only attacked Christianity. He was told this then, and is told that now, and yet if you look at the photograph, or even bother to read the caption, you will note that also pierced by that rusty old nail was a page from the Koran, and not to be out done, he included a page from atheist author Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion.

And all the above is almost beside the point. The point here is that it is clear that some of the people have Islam envy. They honestly seem to be upset because they don't get to shoot people who blaspheme, or who pick on them. They don't get to burn them alive, or beat and kick them, or behead them. They're impotent little wankers and it bothers them.

Now every day that goes by, I hear Christians make callus and downright nasty remarks about atheists or atheism, and you know what? That's O.K. I can live with that. If it bothers me, I will post here on my blog, or question the speaker, or write to the miscreant, but I won't harbor a desire to see them killed, maimed or injured. Telling me there is a god, doesn't hurt me. Telling me I'm going to hell just doesn't worry me. The only time I get bothered is when Christians try to make their beliefs into laws I am supposed to follow. Then we will have a problem.

Oh, and the reason we don't always say something about the Islamist nut jobs, is because we live in a country whose religious makeup has a majority of Christians. We focus on the bigger pest, thanks to the extremist right wing Christians, it's easy to know who that is.

4 Seasons

Another Photoshop Creative project, this one being a tutorial. You start out with the picture of the Tree in the field and all else is done in PS. This took the better part of the night. Still fun though.