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Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort have made a video talking about the program they are promoting, where by they will give away 100,000 copies of “The Origin of Species”, by Charles Darwin. They will be doing this on collage campuses across the country on November 19 (Thursday) to “celebrate” the 150th anniversary of the publishing of Darwin's book.. To get out their Christian message of creationism Ray Comfort has put a 50 page forward in the book that tells the “truth” about Darwin and evolution.
I'm not going to address the nonsense in his forward in this post. There are more than a few blogs that have put the lie to Mr. Comforts fantasy attack on atheism, Darwin and evolution. I want to put some of the comments of his and Cameron's fellow Christians out there. But before doing that, I will point out that not all Christians are like Comfort or Cameron, or like the people whose comments I will address here. I understand that many Christians accept evolution, and are not like the right wing nuts that are in charge of the GOP.
Read the comment on TMZ, and please feel free to watch to Cameron's video.
Kate says:
“[Cameron is] saying he wants two perspectives given in the classroom. Why does that scare evolutionists so badly?...You may be wrong. Do you want to be wrong? I don't.”
The classroom Kate is referring to is the science classroom, where evolution is taught. Cameron and Comfort both want creationism taught side by side with real science, but creationism is not science. It's religion. Evolutionists are not scared, they are tired of the lies, misinformation and constant politicizing of science.
Scientists do get it wrong sometimes, maybe a lot more than they, as individuals would like, but that's what happens, when you have to test out your ideas in the real world. And just in case Kate is really talking about being wrong about gods, how typical that she is so sure she is betting on the right horse.
Francie says:
“...Darwin's "theory" doesn't have an evolutionary leg to stand on. If subjected to today's modern scientific and biological knowledge his "theory" would be instantly debunked and revealed for what it is, some delusional attempt to discredit the Creator of the universe who has eternity in his hands. It's your choice where to spend it.”
Francie is funny. Ask 99.9% of modern biologists and other scientists and they will tell you that evolution theory is the basis of modern biology. Really, does she think that the last time anyone looked at the theory of evolution, was 150 years ago? Sheesh. Scientists will even point out that Darwin got a few things wrong. The truth is, that every time a new method of testing, and investigation comes along, like the study of DNA, biologists start testing evolution in hopes of being the first one to discover some new fact that supports or weakens some aspect of evolutionary theory. Talk about a carrier maker, being the one to shake Darwin out of the cat bird seat.
And once again, we have veiled threats about hell. Some Christians seem to want us to go to hell if we're wrong. I mean some of them really want it.
Debbidy says:
We Christians have no connection with Hitler.....If you remember your history...We, Christians, have been killed for our beliefs. Would you die for yours....
This reference is the result of the creationist claim (and that of Cameron and Comfort) that Hitler had an “undeniable connection"to Darwin and Evolution. An atheist commented that,
“Christianity has an "undeniable connection" with Hitler, racism has an "undeniable connection" to Christian Fundamentalists, and Krk [sic] Cameron has an "undeniable connection" to willful ignorance.
The uncomfortable truth for Christians is that Germany was a Christian country. Members of the Wehrmacht wore buckles that said, “Gott mit uns ” (God with us) and there is no evidence that Hitler ever stopped believing in God. There is also no evidence that Hitler ever thought about evolution, much less accepted that his superior race evolved from apes and blacks that were the first examples of humans on earth.
But let us, for a moment, accept all the misinformation presented about Hitler and Darwin. The truth is that not one thing would be changed in the evolutionary theory. It is still factual science. That it might have been badly used (were the claims true) is irrelevant. After all, Christianity has been used badly by despots and killers for centuries, and that is history. That Christians were occasionally killed (mostly early on) for their beliefs does not make them right. Only dead.
Kathy says:
“...In his own words: Darwin confessed, "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." Even Darwin thought his theory was faulty - and that's why it's just that - A theory and nothing more.”
I am going to give Katy the benefit of the doubt, and assume that she has never actually read Origin. If she had, she would know that Darwin follows that statement with several pages explaining just how the eye could have developed with evolution. Creationist leaders cherry pick Darwin's quotes the same way they often cherry pick quotes from the Bible. Out of context. Darwin did not think his theory was faulty,.
As to the ol' chestnut, “...and that's why it's just that - A theory and nothing more.”, Kathy continues to misunderstand science. A scientific theory is not “just” anything. The theory of evolution, has 150 years of science to back it up. Science from multiple disciplines and hundreds of thousands of tests and predictions. The mountain of evidence for evolutionary theory will not crumble to the likes of creationism. Theory in science is the best thing to be..
Wombat says:
Not even athiests [sic] believe what they babble about. They are just depressed disenchanted people who have to lash out at others because they do believe in a God. But you can't believe in a God can you? Because then you would'nt [sic] have anything to talk about. You'd be the totally uninteresting person at a party of people who all root for the Dodgers. Others believe in God, so you have to NOT believe in God. You are like a walking talking coffee table book, or a tattoo, or a cute dog on a leash you walk thru the park in hopes some girl will talk to you...constantly seeking something to make yourself interesting...because otherwise you are just a dimwitted angry person.
LOL...why do you think athiests [sic] run around babbling their nonsense and trying to get others to STOP believing? If an athiest [sic] really believed in what they say they do, they'd just stay quiet and laugh at us who do believe. Instead you have to fight about it with every breath you take.
Also, you might try realizing that being an athiest [sic] and showing some common courtesy and manners are not alien to each other. Maybe then you can post something one day which is not filled with hate, insults ...and a whole lot of clues to your immaturity.
Now...I will let you get back to scouring the internet for something to scream and rant about with your 5 year old mentality.
Wow. Just Wow. Now I will admit that Wombat was taunted by someone that called her/him a “F*cking hypocrite.”, wow. The turning the other cheek love just flows...not. Apparently, Wombat has trouble with the notion that an atheist can be an intelligent and thoughtful person. But for the record I'm not depressed or disenchanted; I'm did not become an atheist so I could be interesting; I am most definitely not a dimwitted angry person; and while I'm am vocal, there are several reasons and one of them speaks to why so many atheists are speaking out now. I know that Wombat and others would like for us to just stay quiet, but that isn't their choice. With folks trying to put creationism into the science classroom, and trying to make laws that reflect their Christian beliefs, rather than the broader social make up of the country, more and more atheists see the need to make sure that we are counted too.
And quite frankly, I'm tired of Christians telling me what I should think, do, or say as an atheist. As for “filled with hate, insults...”, etc... time to look in the mirror, Wombat.
Chris says:
“Kirk isn't shoving anything down anyone's throat, he is simply trying to give people a chance to decided for themselves what they believe. On college campuses across the U.S. and in public schools only one side is given to students.
Why can't both sides be presented and then give each student the FREEDOM to decided what they believe and don't believe?...I say let him hand out his book, let both sides be presented and give American's the freedom to decided for themselves.”
What isn't being pointed out by Chris is that Cameron does want creationism shoved down the throats of students by putting it in science classes, where it doesn't belong, but in the science class we don't teach opinion. If you mix the right two chemicals together, you get a chemical reaction. That isn't opinion or a matter for letting the student decide for themselves. Science is not democratic. Gravity exists, and if you want to believe otherwise, fine, but that we should teach the “controversy”, where someone might differ is foolish. Notice that we do not teach holocaust denialism in history classes. The holocaust occurred, and while we can present the evidence for it, we also say clearly, that 6 million Jews were killed. Period.
Evolution is a fact. It is the basis of modern biology and in a properly taught science class, the facts are presented, experiments performed and children (including collage students) are taught the basics of how to do science, and why things are they way they are. Creationism does not make predictions, has no facts to support it, and performs no experiments, so it is not science. There is no controversy, and no alternative of a scientific type to evolution.
Josh said:
“The point of the Hitler remark, the racism remark is plain to see. Evolution gives supporting rationale to racism because it is assumed that people will evolve in different ways and at different rates. You cannot embrace a theory such as evolution and insist that all people are equal, it is impossible by definition. If we simply rose from pond scum, if we are simply carbon sacks of water with electricity, we have no intrinsic value other than what power we hold and those with power deem us to have; Survival of the Fittest.”
Evolution does not give support to racism, and does not assume that “people will evolve in different ways and at different rates.” This is a perfect example of someone who doesn't have a clue what evolution is. If we (humans) continue to evolve, and that is a real possibility, it will be as a species, not as single individuals. That is how evolution works. On populations, not one person at a time.
I personally don't think we are “simply” carbon sacks of water with electricity, with no intrinsic value. We are social animals that got where we are together as a species, and we either survive as a species or we don't. Survival of the fittest refers to the species that can adapt to it's environment and thus survive where others might not. If we, as humans, can't adapt to changes in the world around us, we could be replaced, and it wouldn't have to be an intelligent species that replaces us in the niche we now fill.
The above examples are why atheists and scientists are so tired of people who speak about things they don't understand. It has always baffled me that so many Christians think the person to talk to about evolution is a preacher, or an actor who hasn't a single degree in the sciences. Which is why I would be the first one to say, don't take my word for it. Go to some of many web sites or blogs maintained by biologists and read what they have to say. Read books written by evolutionists and work to understand what they are saying and why.
And as for us atheists, we live right along side you, and have the same rights to speak out as you do. I refuse to apologize or shut up just because what I say bothers you.
Washington Field
15 years ago
